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Rude replys

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Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I never found any Fmods or Lmods rude, although one or two might be rude on their alt accounts.

Anyway, I really don't care if the mods are rude because I don't argue with mods. I always follow the FH and FHR procedures. I just hope they are consistent. That's all I ask for. :)

25-Aug-2019 01:59:13

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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FiFi†LaFeles said:
On topic - gotta agree replies are, very occasionally, a bit brusque.
I find rolling my eyes and thinking "Asshat" helps.

Of course, sometimes the poster to whom the response has been directed actually deserves a bit of brutality in which case I tend to smile and think "Yay! Tell it".


Not trying to defend the mods because I do find them quite inconsistent, especially a few are obviously willfully blind in allowing certain players to flame bait, call names and personally attack other players non-stop and don't use the FH to comment on other players.

However, if you don't argue with them, you don't have to hear their rude replies. I just move on, and if needed, use FMR... and may go through paths outside the forums.

Now that you are also mentally rude when you are thinking "Asshat". I don't recommend calling anybody "Asshat" as this will cause more problems. Some employees from Respawn and Blizzard got death threats from saying things like that. And Even the CEO of Respawn spoke out to support their employees.

25-Aug-2019 20:45:34

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26-Aug-2019 17:57:46

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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FiFi†LaFeles said:
Dilbert2001 said:
FiFi†LaFeles said:

I find rolling my eyes and thinking "Asshat" helps.

Of course, sometimes the poster to whom the response has been directed actually deserves a bit of brutality in which case I tend to smile and think "Yay! Tell it".


Not trying to defend the mods because I do find them quite inconsistent, especially a few are obviously willfully blind in allowing certain players to flame bait, call names and personally attack other players non-stop and don't use the FH to comment on other players.

However, if you don't argue with them, you don't have to hear their rude replies. I just move on, and if needed, use FMR... and may go through paths outside the forums.

Now that you are also mentally rude when you are thinking "Asshat". I don't recommend calling anybody "Asshat" as this will cause more problems. Some employees from Respawn and Blizzard got death threats from saying things like that. And Even the CEO of Respawn spoke out to support their employees.


I don't argue with them though. And I don't get brusque comments from them. Nor do I go outside the forums to whine about them - I'm not that petty. I was referring to reading replies left for other posters which are occasionally on the curt side.

I didn't recommend anyone to call them Asshats. I said that's what I sometimes think to myself if I see a curt response (to another poster). How can what I am thinking cause 'more problems'? Do FMods have mind reading abilities too?

And wtf has Blizzard or Respawn got to do with any of this anyway, lol. Take a chill pill.


It is simple then. Don't worry about their replies to the OTHER PEOPLE. If it doesn't bother you, then don't even mentally call them "Asshats". Then problem solved.

"Asshats" was the word that caused the problems in Respawn and Blizzard,.

26-Aug-2019 17:59:08 - Last edited on 26-Aug-2019 18:01:36 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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The problem is different Fmods, Lmods or Jmods all have their own judgement on what is rude and what is not appropriate for the forums.

For instance, one may say "asshat" is fine, but another one may consider it an insult. Some may even say there is freedom of speech to terrorism too. That's why we need a legally bound consistent framework like what's proposed here by the UK Parliament:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/793360/Online_Harms_White_Paper.pdf

With the self-regulatory bodies like ESA, ESRB/PEGI, and Fair Play Alliance et al enforcing a standard forums format, then it is not up to individual mod to use their own judgement inconsistently.

26-Aug-2019 18:31:20

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Hmm said:
There's the third option, people who consider asshat an insult AND fine, which is likely the vast majority, because we don't need bubblewrap from the government of morons to decide what's common sense. The kind of common sense where you don't somehow link the word asshat to terrorism.


Regulations are not necessarily majority ruling or popularity contests. They are also not something "likely" or "unlikely". They have to be 100% precise and consistent.

Nobody can link "asshat" to terrorism. They are separate examples. Only government regulations tell you if "asshat" can be used or not in some specific places (e.g. in Court, you don't call the Judge an asshat).

26-Aug-2019 19:00:16

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Tranq said:
I'll be honest... If you ever thought my replies are anywhere near rude. Y'all should honestly see the first drafts that I read and delete before writing something nicer.

As to calling me an Asshat, honestly I chuckled. I don't seek or want validation of others. I truly prefer brutal honesty. Sugar coating anything is rather rough for me. However being diplomatic often requires playing politician, tell the masses what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear.



OK. I guess Your Asshat is not fit to be a Judge in a real world Court of Law. :P

26-Aug-2019 20:10:28

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Samora†Kiba said:
I have to admit that so far, I did not come across a rude reply from an Fmod. Maybe it's because I'm a very blunt person myself. Sure, you'll find some posts with a teasing or blunt comment, or an action taken that you believe is not the fair action here, but that is in my opinion not the same as rude.


Yes. I agree with you. Fmods are not rude when they reply in their Fmod accounts (although I can hardly say that when they use their alts).

But again, different mods have different standards... For instance, one of them said "crying" is offensive but extremely obvious name callings like "Strawbert", "ShillBert", "Bilbert", etc in direct reply to my posts repeatedly are not.

Personally, I have a completely different opinion. I think it is totally bs to call people names but I can tolerate people to call me even Asshat or retard once in a while.

It is finealthough "crying" is offensive. It is ok though, I just don't put "cry" or "crying" in my posts then and shrug... move on.

Crying's not for me
'Cause I'm never gonna stop the rain by complaining

27-Aug-2019 03:36:30 - Last edited on 27-Aug-2019 03:46:53 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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FiFi†LaFeles said:
Dilbert2001 said:
FiFi†LaFeles said:
Dilbert2001 said:
FiFi†LaFeles said:

I find rolling my eyes and thinking "Asshat" helps.

Of course, sometimes the poster to whom the response has been directed actually deserves a bit of brutality in which case I tend to smile and think "Yay! Tell it".


.


.


It is simple then. Don't worry about their replies to the OTHER PEOPLE. If it doesn't bother you, then don't even mentally call them "Asshats". Then problem solved.

"Asshats" was the word that caused the problems in Respawn and Blizzard,.


But I don't worry about their replies to other people. Whatever made you think I worry about their replies to other people? I enjoy their replies to other people. I mentally critique those replies (sometimes) - which of course I am entirely at liberty to do - but I most surely don't worry about the content of the replies. An FMod being a little brusque is not seen by me as problematical, it is seen as amusing.

So, there is no problem to be solved.

And maybe we should stick to references concerning the RSOF rather than other games since Modding on other games is irrelevant here. I'm almost certain the OP of this thread doesn't play games by Respawn or Blizzard and, in any event, she's not talking about Mods in other games. Plus, I don't recall ever seeing one of our Mods call anyone an Asshat in a reply. Have you?


Your reply further illustrated different people have different interpretations of words. In this case, "you" means not "you, Fifi Lafeles" but anybody reading this post.

Moreover, Respawn was just my case study to bring out the bigger points - words like "Asshat" and its legitimacy in the UK and potential worldwise regulatory framework.

27-Aug-2019 18:28:23

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Samora†Kiba said:
Dilbert2001,

I agree that it's very annoying when people make fun of your name or misspell it on purpose. I'm not sure if it's one Fmod mocking your name or multiple, but as it bugs you, have you ever replied to them or contacted them with a request to stop? I can see how it might be intended as joke, not realizing they actually annoy you. If you did tell them to stop & you know they've seen the request but they still continue it, then yes, it is behaviour worth flagging. I suspect there's a fair chance of Jagex agreeing with you in that context as well.

Whether or not crying is offensive, well, I can see how it can be used in offensive ('lol, are you going to cry and run to your mom?') and non-offensive ('I spent half the night crying after I disassembled my nox staff by accident) ways. Context is key. I have no clue about the context so I'm not going to form an opinion on who was right here. If it confused you though, ask that Fmod (or another Fmod that you might like more) why you got hidden. Maybe it'll end up in agree to disagree, maybe not.

Isn't this how we show eachother benefit of doubt, or at least avoid assuming the worst?


I don't mean mods calling me names or intentionally making fun or misspell my names (at least not in their formal mod accounts). I mean some of them are turning a blind eyes on the same users who repeatedly did that to me. And absolutely yes, I did report them formally using FH and FMR and even got a reply from a Jmod warning people not to do that.

Regretfully, perhaps some fmods don't agree with the other Fmods/Lmods or the Jmod who agreed with me and let it slide.

And regarding "crying'. I remember what I wrote was something like "I won't be crying about <that issue>, will you?". Personally I think I just expressed my own feeling like "Crying is not for me, because I am not going to stop the rain by complaining". I just agreed with B.J. Thomas. I don't see the issue. :)

27-Aug-2019 18:35:41

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27-Aug-2019 22:03:46

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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OK. Assuming nobody can demand me I can't use examples, I want to use Respawn's CEO's spot-on comment to express my opinions on how to respond to "rude comments":

"I (Vince Zampellala, Respawn CEO) apologize to any of our fans that were offended. I will always stand behind the team here at Respawn and support them on speaking out against some of the toxic and nasty comments being directed at them, including everything from death threats to comments aimed at their family and loved ones.
But we shouldnít contribute to it when we do comment, and add to the very thing we want to prevent
.

We need to lead by example
. Last week we didnít do that, and going forward we will be better. Having an open, healthy relationship with our community is incredibly important to all of us at Respawn.Ē


Indeed, it takes two to tango. Everybody should not contribute to "rude replies" by adding more "rude replies". IMHO, regardless if the Mods were actually "rude", they should lead by example by telling us they have no intention to be rude. It is just a matter of different interpretations. If they don't mind, they may also want to tell us they don't mind to be called "freeloaders" or "asshats" too like Your Asshat Tranq. :P

And for us users, we have no rights to bypass the FMR and continue and amplify our arguments with them. Not following the FH and FMR procedure is itself a rude response to the Mods already.

Again, this is just my humble opinions to "you"... and YOU doesn't mean a specific person but
Whom It May Concern
. :)

27-Aug-2019 23:50:29 - Last edited on 27-Aug-2019 23:51:38 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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2_Tron said:
Dilbert2001 said:
...
Maybe this is easier to put down as if that is what you mean ...
Therefore Jagex operates a zero tolerance approach towards any abuse directed towards our volunteer moderators (and any player for that matter), and will take swift action towards anyone who deliberately goes out of their way to maliciously disrupt and harass our volunteer moderators.

Just read the support pages.


This is just part of it. It's Jagex's action to the "abusers".

The other part IMHO Mods should do is, as I mentioned, to explain either they did not mean what they said, they misworded or apologize for being rude but it is just a bad day.

The part we users should do is, just use the FMR if we are still not satisfy.

28-Aug-2019 00:10:02

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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2_Tron said:
Dilbert2001 said:
2_Tron said:
Dilbert2001 said:
...
Maybe this is easier to put down as if that is what you mean ...
Just read the support pages.


This is just part of it. It's Jagex's action to the "abusers".

The other part IMHO Mods should do is, as I mentioned, to explain either they did not mean what they said, they misworded or apologize for being rude but it is just a bad day.

The part we users should do is, just use the FMR if we are still not satisfy.
@Dilbert2001 I wholeheartedly agree with you on this one but sadly we are "out of examples" thus not knowing they really exist the way they are described in this thread. I can't picture rude replies in the context they are written when we don't have a clue how they are posted.

To make it clearer, what I mean is the Fmods should also courteously tell them why they responded that way, regardless if they are really rude:

(1) No. I don't mean to be rude. E.g. Sorry to call you an asshat but I don't mean to be rude and my friends call me an asshat too.
(2) Sorry. I just used the wrong words. Here is what I actually mean... blah blah blah
(3) I am terribly sorry I realized I am rude... but it is a hectic day. Please accept my apologies.

In other words, instead of just showing the "abusers" the Jagex rule bluntly, I think they also have the responsibility to explain their "rudeness" too.

But remember, as a Fmod, IMHO, you (again, not referring to a specific Fmod) have no reason to let the user to continue any arguments on your rudeness if they are still not satisfied.

Respawn's CEO did it exactly right when he apologized for the mistake where his underlings apparently did not, but on the other, also clearly reminded they have such a rule like Jagex that they can't accept their Mods getting abused.

28-Aug-2019 00:36:11 - Last edited on 28-Aug-2019 00:40:27 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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FiFi†LaFeles said:
The Respawn people you keep banging on about.

This thread is about Moderator responses on the RSOF. The people you are holding up as an example (of something, not sure what) were not Moderators.

You should read my post further up this page.


Isn't Mod Pips a Jagex moderator? I hate to mention for the 9000 times I am just quoting an example on how IMHO moderators (note: mods from all companies, not just Jagex, Respawn, or anybody else) should respond to user's complaints on their "rudeness". It doesn't have to be Respawn, and I did not keep bringing up Respawn. YOU, FiFi LaFeles did.

If you have that big a problem with Respawn in my example, it would work equally well if I said "Santa Claus Games" or "Easter Bunny Online".

28-Aug-2019 13:39:46

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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2_Tron said:
@Dilbert2001, ... are 1) 2) & 3) all examples to be found in The RSOF, written by RuneScape Community Forum Moderators? Just exactly how they have written them down?


They are not rules. I don't think there are Jagex rules that Fmods or Pmods have to be not "rude" or respond to complaints about their 'rudeness". They are just my humble opinions.

28-Aug-2019 13:42:54

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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More on Mods leading by example, here is another example on how Jagex's very own Mod Pips showed his leadership in reply to delayed replies to a mass ban on faulty bot detection:

"There will be a response today on this. It should have come sooner, apologies"
- JagexPips Mod Pips

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/9b1z62/can_we_please_get_a_response_to_the_recent/

No. Mod Pips did not have to do anything in that situation. No. There is no Jagex rule that requires him to do that. But I thought he did that because he thought it would help to mediate the situation.

Don't tell us Mod Pips is not a moderator, and obviously even the highest ranked mods of all ethical companies care and respond appropriately when needed. :)

28-Aug-2019 15:41:01 - Last edited on 28-Aug-2019 15:50:18 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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2_Tron said:
@Dilbert2001, ... please do get serious for once, that reference was about a year ago one of such as Forum Moderators can't do do anything about because that information can be withheld by JMods and Forum Moderators do not have control over Jagex / JMods. Forum Moderators only have to listen to what Jagex has to say.


I am not referring to any specific situation or whether the mods are right or wrong. The main point is Mods of any levels including CEOs can only help to mediate the situations if they are more polite although politeness and/or apologies to "rudeness" may not be exactly a requirement in the rule book.

28-Aug-2019 16:19:03 - Last edited on 28-Aug-2019 16:21:16 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I don't know about everybody, but to me words like "please", "thanks" etc are not hard to say, even to people who keep target attacking me and calling me names in every post.

Perhaps to some people, if the ones they talk to (of course, Fmods included) never say these words then they are "rude"?

Well, I don't know but TBH I think words like "please", "thanks", "sorry" "apologize" etc are not in the vocabularies of a couple of Fmods. That's not really "rude" to me, and as a matter of fact like somebody pointed out Fmods have no obligations to be as courteous as Lmods and Jmods, but some others may have different opinions.

28-Aug-2019 21:11:53

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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FiFi†LaFeles said:
Dilbert2001 said:
FiFi†LaFeles said:
The Respawn people you keep banging on about.

This thread is about Moderator responses on the RSOF. The people you are holding up as an example (of something, not sure what) were not Moderators.

You should read my post further up this page.


Isn't Mod Pips a Jagex moderator? I hate to mention for the 9000 times I am just quoting an example on how IMHO moderators (note: mods from all companies, not just Jagex, Respawn, or anybody else) should respond to user's complaints on their "rudeness". It doesn't have to be Respawn, and I did not keep bringing up Respawn. YOU, FiFi LaFeles did.

If you have that big a problem with Respawn in my example, it would work equally well if I said "Santa Claus Games" or "Easter Bunny Online".


I'm afraid you did, indeed, keep bringing up the Respawn event as some sort of "example" ... and now you are trying to equate it to a Mod Pips old post about something that is not even remotely comparable with the Respawn debacle. Not even close, lol.


Thank you for your opinions but if you don't agree with my opinions it is up to you.

The undeniable fact is whether it is the CEO of Respwan, Mod Pips of Jagex or Silly Rabbit of Easter Bunny Online, they are all mods of their companies too. All mods of their companies have equal responsibilities to be courteous to their customers. It is their responsibilities, although not exactly an ironclad requirement, to give a good impression to the customers.

29-Aug-2019 17:37:23

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Jack†Flac said:
Dilbert2001 said:


Thank you for your opinions but if you don't agree with my opinions it is up to you.

The undeniable fact is whether it is the CEO of Respwan, Mod Pips of Jagex or Silly Rabbit of Easter Bunny Online, they are all mods of their companies too. All mods of their companies have equal responsibilities to be courteous to their customers. It is their responsibilities, although not exactly an ironclad requirement, to give a good impression to the customers.
The disposition of a person doesn't matter. What matters is the quality of what they create. They can be a lunatic axe-murderer if they create good content.

Creators need to stop bending over backwards for the consumers. And consumers need to stop acting like they own the creators.


Creators don't need to be "bending over backwards for the consumers". However, it is a good thing some Creators give their consumers extra tools to voice their opinions. That's why in Jagex's case, we have these wonderful FH and FMR review procedures where no other "Creators" of other games have.

On the other side, consumers need to stop acting like they own the "Creators". They should always respect the FH and FMR procedures. Creators should under no circumstances allow the consumers to argue with each other in regular forums or with Fmods/Lmods/Jmods in FH. Once when the "arguments" reach the FMR and get the final "ruling" from the "Judge", it is all over.

The underlying problem with this "rudeness" issue is (certain) Fmods are inconsistent. They allow some "consumer" to act like they own the "Creators" that they don't have to use FH and FMR to flame bait each other and hence creating more "rudeness".

30-Aug-2019 16:50:16

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Then there is no point to argue. Let the one who don't miss my point or your funny point to comment then, since the thread is not about what your points or mine are. It is really not that hard.

The FH and FMR are designed for EVERYBODY. The rules are utterly not to be broken by anybody with any funny excuses like "you can't say this or that because some people will not be happy" or "you can't quote me".

Fmods/Lmods are the Judges in FH and Jmods are the Supreme Judge in FMR. We just need to respect the system and the Judges. Less arguments, less conflict, of course less "rudeness" issues. :)

30-Aug-2019 20:10:35 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2019 20:16:54 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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When a mod took or did not take an action in a FH report but left no comment, and then failed to respond when asked in FH again to provide further info or just as little info as his identity so we could go with the proper FMR procedure, then I would consider him/her rude. :(

10-Sep-2019 22:21:31

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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TinyThi3f said:
From what Iíve seen the Mod teams seem alright.

Iíll have to try
Tranqs
proof reading posts though, before replying to flamebaity posts.


There should be no difference in handling "flamebaity" posts or "non-flamebaity" ones. Just hide/delete them and give a brief comment that those posts do not belong in the RSOF. If the "flamebaiting" is directed at the mods, tell the "flamebaiters" to please use FMR. :)

13-Sep-2019 16:43:39

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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2_Tron said:
Dilbert2001 said:
TinyThi3f said:
From what Iíve seen the Mod teams seem alright.

Iíll have to try
Tranqs
proof reading posts though, before replying to flamebaity posts.


There should be no difference in handling "flamebaity" posts or "non-flamebaity" ones. Just hide/delete them and give a brief comment that those posts do not belong in the RSOF. If the "flamebaiting" is directed at the mods, tell the "flamebaiters" to please use FMR. :)
For once just quit using the sentence "please use Forum Moderation Review" as it is a soo overused sentence that doesn't do any good at all.


Sorry but even if you don't agree, this is the procedure these RSOF have been using for a long long long time.

Do you know why I respect these FH and FMR procedure? Not that I think they are totally fair but because less arguments and less conflicts = less rude replies. :)

13-Sep-2019 18:36:03 - Last edited on 13-Sep-2019 18:37:36 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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2_Tron said:
Dilbert2001 said:
2_Tron said:
Dilbert2001 said:
TinyThi3f said:
From what Iíve seen the Mod teams seem alright.

Iíll have to try
Tranqs
proof reading posts though, before replying to flamebaity posts.


There should be no difference in handling "flamebaity" posts or "non-flamebaity" ones. Just hide/delete them and give a brief comment that those posts do not belong in the RSOF. If the "flamebaiting" is directed at the mods, tell the "flamebaiters" to please use FMR. :)
For once just quit using the sentence "please use Forum Moderation Review" as it is a soo overused sentence that doesn't do any good at all.


Sorry but even if you don't agree, this is the procedure these RSOF have been using for a long long long time.

Do you know why I respect these FH and FMR procedure? Not that I think they are totally fair but because less arguments and less conflicts = less rude replies. :)
Jagex, as in Jagex now 2009 / 2019, doesn't tolerate opposing views / criticism / negative comments thus they abuse this revolving procedure to their advantage "go to FH - got to FMR go to email-address" over and over & over thus why not take FMR and email-address away and save us that revolving procedure?
I find it quite rude to leave players in this revolving procedure and when these players get angry start calling them out with a bunch of spineless helpers.


Jagex made the rules. When they said that's the rule, it is the rule even if you don't agree. Jagex doesn't "abuse" any forum procedure because they made the procedure just like they don't "abuse" the EULA we agreed to before we can use their facilities.

17-Sep-2019 05:13:02

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