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Remove F2P Access

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Applejuiceaj
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Applejuiceaj

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Draco Burnz said:
Why isnt this needed?


Because the RuneScape Forums are, as the page title says, "Community Forums for Clans, Feedback & Discussion." F2P players are very much a part of the RuneScape community of players who play and enjoy the game.

Note that the wording of that above statement does not state that the forums are only meant to be used by a subsection of the community. Rather, it is meant for the entire community. Yes, the forums do have a 350 total requirement, however that is in place to safeguard against no-effort throwaway accounts that would otherwise have been used to pollute the forums, similar to the recent introduction of a 150 total level in order to access a friends chat.

And it should be noted that when F2P access was initially implemented for the forums, it required 12.5 million XP to enter - the equivalent of having put a lot of effort into an account, and that was likely to cater to some players who were contributing positively to the forum community and might have let their subscriptions lapse here and there. Since then, the restriction in place to use the forums has come down numerous times: 1000 total level or 5 million XP, then 500 total level or 5 million XP, and then our current 350 total level requirement. That is, Jagex has welcomed additional F2P players to join the forums and be a part of the foruming community.

Draco, on page 4, when you decided to support this thread's proposal, you listed your reasoning as
Draco Burnz said:
F2p need to start paying for something considering they choose to stay f2p.

However, have you considered that by using that argument, you are essentially alienating a segment of the community from being able to contribute to the forums in a positive way?

04-Dec-2018 02:17:46

Applejuiceaj
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Applejuiceaj

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Clans are a huge part of RuneScape on both P2P and F2P worlds, and as of current, the RuneScape Forums are one of main ways that clans advertise and recruit new members. Why should a F2P-based clan be prohibited from being able to use the forums for recruitment? And if that were to be the case, why should they be forced to use an off-site platform to recruit, and what platform would they use? Reddit certainly does not work well for clan recruitment, and most other fansites have died off and aren't used anywhere near as much as they used to (a few have closed their doors altogether).

The forums are used for more than clans though; they can also be used for advertising in-game player hosted events. There are many potential events that a F2P player could host: hide and seek, a minigame such as Fist of Guthix or Clan Wars, a skilling event, a Q&A event, a conga line around Gielinor, and so on. The forums provide a platform for advertising those events by using the Events forum. Considering there is nothing preventing a F2P player from hosting an event, why should they be forced to resort to advertising their event on some other platform instead of being able to advertise it on the RuneScape forums?

The forums are also used for forming bossing teams. While bossing is primarily a members activity, there are a few F2P bosses out there: the King Black Dragon, the Giant Mole, and the Chaos Elemental are all bosses that F2P players can fight. F2P players can also form dungeoneering teams, which is also something sometimes done on the forums. Again, the question becomes: why should these players be forced to use some other third party platform to engage in forming F2P based teams rather than be able to do so via the forums?

04-Dec-2018 02:17:55

Applejuiceaj
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Applejuiceaj

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F2Pers know a lot about the F2P game - many have played the F2P way for many many years and made some very remarkable accomplishments in that time. And because they know a lot about the game, they are the best to ask with regards to how certain updates may have affected F2P players. For example, when fletching came out, the ability to use a fletching lamp in F2P was overlooked. A P2P player wouldn't have known that, but a F2P player would have. Many F2P players were vocal about this oversight and the feedback was taken on board. If the forums were members only, they wouldn't have been able to share this feedback via the forums and had it taken on board by the developers. This is 2018; we are well past the days of "we pay we say" being the only way to get feedback heard.

Not only that, but F2P players have been known to share their knowledge of the game, too - over the years, many have been active in answering questions that other players have had, along with share their knowledge in the form of guides in the RuneScape Guides and Help forum.

And finally, there are some players who simply choose to play the F2P way - not because they can't afford it, but because that is how they want to play. Back in the day, there was a fairly well known FMod who did pay membership, but only for the expanded friends list. If they were ingame, they were not training members skills or training F2P skills via members methods, but instead stuck to training only in F2P worlds. There were also a number of F2P FMods and F2P players who had a very positive impact to the forums, many of whom remained as pure F2P players because they enjoyed the challenges that the F2P gameplay brought to the table.

04-Dec-2018 02:18:03

Applejuiceaj
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Applejuiceaj

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What I'm getting at here, is that whether a person subscribes to the game or not does not have any influence on who they are as a person, and therefore, how they contribute to the forums. If a F2P player wishes to contribute to the forums, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to.

All other similar platforms to the forums (fansites, social media, Reddit) have no requirements in place that people must meet in order to use them, other than "don't be a bot" and to follow the rules of that platform. Why should the forums, therefore, reintroduce a paywall in order to use them, when many of the F2P playerbase who do use the forums do treat them with respect and use them they way they were designed to be used?

04-Dec-2018 02:18:09

Applejuiceaj
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Applejuiceaj

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Team Skull - When you created this proposal, you gave your rationale for doing so as:
Team Skull said:
Why? Simple:

It's more trouble than what it's worth.


However, you failed to explain how it is "more trouble than it's worth." That is, you failed you explain how all F2P players are a detriment to the forum community, and how making the forums members only would have a positive impact on the forums.

You listed a few ways some F2P use the forums and how you felt they could get around those ways, but ignored many others - many of those highlighted in my earlier posts to Draco. Remember, not being able to afford members is not necessarily the reason why all F2P players remain as F2P players, and the majority of F2P players are not causing trouble. From my observations in my role as an FMod, I'd say most of the time, when we have to intervene in a thread for moderation purposes, it is not a F2P player involved in causing the trouble.

There has to be some sort of motive behind wanting to create a thread with an extreme proposal as this one which many big names in the community, many whom have been active in using this platform for years, have chosen to not support. A single sentence stating that having F2P players on the forums is more trouble than its worth doesn't explain the rationale behind the thread. So, I would like to ask that you further explain your rationale for creating this thread.


Is it because you have found that most F2P players you have encountered are misusing the forums?
Is it because you feel that there will be significantly less troublemakers on the forums if F2P are not allowed to use the forums?
Is it because you feel that in order to be a part of a community hosted by the makers of the game, one should be required to subscribe to that game?

Or is it because you dislike a few, specific forumers and wish for them not to be able to use the forums any longer?

04-Dec-2018 02:18:16 - Last edited on 04-Dec-2018 02:44:20 by Applejuiceaj

Draco Burnz
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Draco Burnz

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Applejuiceaj said:
However, have you considered that by using that argument, you are essentially alienating a segment of the community from being able to contribute to the forums in a positive way?


I wouldnt mind them so much if they didnt take part in a negative way or continually ask for things to be made f2p.

Considering a good number of them just seem to cause more harm than good, i wouldnt mind just raising the req a little instead of just out right "banning" them, like i said here:

Draco Burnz said:
Matt258 said:
Nope! It has a Total Level requirement to be able to make a Post. Maybe it needs to be increased? You can always Report a Post/Topic


Support for at least an increase.

make it ~1k or so IMO.
Draco Burnz
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04-Dec-2018 02:39:36 - Last edited on 04-Dec-2018 02:39:50 by Draco Burnz

Draco Burnz
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Draco Burnz

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Applejuiceaj said:
All other similar platforms to the forums (fansites, social media, Reddit) have no requirements in place that people must meet in order to use them, other than "don't be a bot" and to follow the rules of that platform. Why should the forums, therefore, reintroduce a paywall in order to use them, when many of the F2P playerbase who do use the forums do treat them with respect and use them they way they were designed to be used?


Yet the forums do have a req for f2p as is, its 350 total IIRC.
Draco Burnz
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04-Dec-2018 02:40:59 - Last edited on 04-Dec-2018 02:43:15 by Draco Burnz

Applejuiceaj
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Applejuiceaj

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Draco Burnz said:
I wouldnt mind them so much if they didnt take part in a negative way or continually ask for things to be made f2p.

Considering a good number of them just seem to cause more harm than good, i wouldnt mind just raising the req a little instead of just out right "banning" them, like i said here:


Again, you are focusing on a specific few that you might not get along with. There are many, many more though who do use the platform the way it should be used, with respect.

Should the actions of a few dictate the fate of the many? To me, that doesn't make much sense.

Using your logic, should Jagex remove the ability for P2P players to use the forums because a few choose to misuse them?

Should Jagex limit the ability to post on the forums to only those who agree with one side's opinion to ensure that threads do not become a flame war due to difference in opinion, making any thread on the forums just be a collection of people saying yes and not really achieving much in terms of an actual discussion?


Additionally, 1000 total level is quite high - to have that, one would need to have approximately level 59 in each skill. Remember, F2P only have access to 17 skills, not 27. And, if we include Old School in this (the current requirement applies to either game), that would require all levels to be in the mid 60s to gain access, as they have less F2P skills than RS3 does. That's quite a lot when you consider the amount of time it takes to reach that point in F2P when compared to P2P.

(continued...)

04-Dec-2018 03:13:58

Applejuiceaj
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Applejuiceaj

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Draco Burnz said:
Yet the forums do have a req for f2p as is, its 350 total IIRC.


Correct, they do, to prevent the basic throwaway spammer account - if they didn't, FMods would probably be banning hundreds of RWT throwaway accounts a week, just like Jagex bans many RWT throwaway accounts a week for spamming at the GE. When my friend was on staff of a recognized fansite years ago, they mentioned they banned quite a lot of throwaway junk accounts daily - its just that on other sites they aren't as visible as they just disappear, rather than leaving a clearly obvious hidden post.

For the record, the last time that Jagex revoked the ability for F2P to post (it did happen back in... 2013 I believe), it was due to numerous accounts being used in an organized spam attack, involving both F2P and P2P accounts that were hijacked by way of a cheating site. The restriction was lifted once better anti-spam mechanisms were in place. However, I must stress - the accounts involved were not a part of the dedicated F2P community that uses the forums regularly. Since then, we have not had a repeat of that kind of attack.

But other than that, Jagex has over the years continued to lower the requirement. They want F2P to be able to use the forums. We, the foruming community, in the current day and age, want the forums to be more active. Removing people from the forums who are contributing positively, as many are, to the overall activity of the forums doesn't make too much sense.

04-Dec-2018 03:14:05

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