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Yet the main question still hasn't been answered: How is posting "bump" spam/trolling? "Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

24-Jun-2018 07:48:31

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Loki said:
Southeaster said:
I don't understand why the previous thread was locked, this is merely a continuation of it.
Making multiple threads of the same topic immediately after getting previous versions locked should be against the rules. :/ Should a new forum rule be added for that?


It technically is against the rules, but only if a Forum Moderator has directed you not to.

Or if it's a duplicate, which you could make the case that this is, but eh- rather leave that for FH.

I'd support this though, considering it gives the appearance of fishing for compliance instead of discussion.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

24-Jun-2018 10:07:50 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2018 10:09:57 by Team Skull

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Dong U Dead said:

Yes, I feel the same as you. But threads are being bumped, with no or seldom discussion going on. I've even seen a thread go from being locked to unlocked by a Jmods and weeks later still no reply from threads owner, but bumped regularly to keep it on page one.


Do you have proof of this?
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

24-Jun-2018 14:36:02

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Dong U Dead said:
I'm not going down that track to prove stuff.


But you're making rather assertive claims.

You should be having to prove them. Otherwise, your argument is quite honestly bad and should be disregarded.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

24-Jun-2018 15:24:53

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Miu said:
Dong U Dead said:

Yes, it will be reported as spam or trolling.

At first you may find people spamming the thread with bump posts, if it's moderated correctly this will soon stop or reduce dramatically - you can never stop all trolling or spamming.


Stay on topic plz, this thread is about adding a bump button, NOT banning bump posts!


But that's ultimately her end goal, so what's the difference?

A bump button (which is absolutely ridiculous outside of the thread owner and would merely turn the forums into a Reddit-like circlejerk) can be used to spam/troll much like how the word "bump" allegedly is used to do so (OP still has not provided sufficient proof this occurs) which would actually amplify alleged "abuse" more than the word "bump" does when you really begin to examine the merits of the argument.

Even then, this all ignores all of the logistical issues, like the coding on an archaic platform (Which let's be honest, is rather lacking and look at how long it took us to get a rudimentary image sharing feature), how to punish people suspected of abusing said feature, how to even preempt aforementioned abuse, so on and so forth. I just don't see it.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

25-Jun-2018 04:22:00 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2018 04:23:15 by Team Skull

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Do you have hard evidence of this?

Because it appears Dong doesn't, despite asserting through and through that it's happening.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

25-Jun-2018 17:06:08

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Wilf said:

Well it might not be happening now


Then it's irrelevant, especially if you don't have hard evidence.

"Hey, I saw Ryan Gosling riding a pink unicorn following Chuck Norris who was playing Fury of the Storm on the triangle!"

"...Do you have proof of this? That's a very tall claim to make."

"...It was a few years ago, but I definitely saw it with my own two eyes!"

"...That's nice, but do you have proof of this?"

"Well, it might not be happening this very moment, but it could!"
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

25-Jun-2018 17:16:22

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Wilf said:
I think it is relevant if somebody wants to know why posting bump is spam


But if you don't have hard proof that it's still happening, then why continue to assert it?
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

25-Jun-2018 17:33:32

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Wilf said:
Assert what? That posting single word posts that add noting to the discussion multiple times on threads can be deemed spam?

Because it can I guess


That it's even happening with such an intent to begin with.

Dong U Dead said:
Can you please get back on topic. You're welcome to make a new thread to discuss the moderation of spam words. This thread is about the bump button - please discuss this.


Except the moderation is an underlying facet of discussion. Your proposal would cut down on moderation, yes, and you did explicitly state it would be reported a spam/trolling, yes, but the big question is:

How would it warrant a report for spam/trolling? Also, is it even happening to begin with with such an intent and at such a frequency that it warrants said action?

If it is, I'd like to see the hard proof that such posting, indeed, has such an intent and at such a frequency.

If it's not and/or lack the proof to make such an assertion, then what's the issue?
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

25-Jun-2018 17:43:02 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2018 17:46:51 by Team Skull

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Dong U Dead said:

Please get back on topic and if you want to discuss moderation in more depth, please make your own thread. This thread is for the discussion of the Bump Button.


And like I said, the moderation is an underlying facet of discussion. IF you feel such posts are contrary to the Code of Conduct, feel free to report it.

But, anywho...

You still have not answered (and furthermore have not provided hard evidence) that such a phenomenon is occurring, so I am forced to believe that this isn't really an issue that warrants a drastic change to both forum functionality and the ruleset.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

26-Jun-2018 02:41:56

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Dong U Dead said:
Loki said:
Applejuiceaj said:
I can also imagine other players that aren't the author digging up lots of older threads and there being no way to attribute it to who actually bumped the thread.
Good point. I didn't actually think about this.

Trolls could come along and bump threads from years ago and all the current threads will be pushed far back, without anyone knowing who did it...

This already happens and often too I might add.


Prove it then. Provide QFCs, FH reports, SOMETHING, because right now you've provided not an iota of evidence.

This is all sounding like that stupid analogy I love to use with Ryan Gosling and the pink unicorn....
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

26-Jun-2018 15:55:11

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Dong U Dead said:
People bumping older threads has been happening for years, it's never stopped, moderators come along lock them and gives the usual speech. I'm not going to prove stuff - you sound like my 10 year old - "prove it", "prove it", it's like his new word at the moment.

A bump button upgrade in my eyes will be a bonus for the forums.


That's nice. I don't give a shit about your kid- he's not part of the discussion and unlike your kid, I actually deserve the same amount of respect as any other well-standing adult.

So, I will ask, again, for you to prove that the posts in question (assuming they even exist) are used to spam/troll, and if you can't prove it, then this thread no longer has any viable discussion value.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

27-Jun-2018 02:52:50 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2018 02:53:28 by Team Skull

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Dong U Dead said:

Page 13, post 4 <- this this what you quoted and asked proof off.


So your "proof" is this:

Dong U Dead said:
I'm not going to prove stuff


I'm sorry, but that is garbage-tier level proof, if it can even be called proof.

Dong U Dead said:

And please grow up and stop spamming my thread with this constant proof stuff.


If you believe me asking for proof is spamming, you are more than free to report it to Forum Help for a Moderator to rule on it. Until then, I will keep asking for proof for your rather extravagant claims.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

29-Jun-2018 00:21:52

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Dong U Dead said:
Naming and Shaming is against the rules. I will not be naming threads or posts.


Then why are you making assertions you won't (or allege, can't) reinforce with hard evidence?

That sure as hell doesn't make your case look good and if I may be 100% honest, just gives the impression to others that this thread was made under disingenuous intentions.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

29-Jun-2018 19:34:02

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Dong U Dead said:

I never said anywhere about moderators doing this, I said for the owner to look after this


Which is even more dangerous to the health of the forums than just allowing bumping via words to begin with (If it's even an issue worth actioning).
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

29-Jun-2018 21:29:00

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Molly Weazly said:

But bumps or . or one word replies are really not that much of a nuisance in the long run and if someone is actually using that to derail your thread and don't stop if you ask them, you have the poor FMods to voluntarily chase those trolls down and spend all their free time hiding their efforts at making your (and their life) miserable.


Except asking them is irrelevant.

Like I keep mentioning- It's actually harassment to continually ask them to stop posting, especially so if said posts are not breaking any rules (Which bump posts do not constitute such, like you conceded). That's a hard rule. IF you don't believe me, you can quote this post, and have a Forum Mod verify it for accuracy.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

30-Jun-2018 20:41:06 - Last edited on 30-Jun-2018 20:41:15 by Team Skull

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Dong U Dead said:
Team Skull said:
Dong U Dead said:

I never said anywhere about moderators doing this, I said for the owner to look after this


Which is even more dangerous to the health of the forums than just allowing bumping via words to begin with (If it's even an issue worth actioning).

Why is it more dangerous??


Surely if you won't answer questions directly (or at all, for that matter), then I guess I'm not under obligation to, now am I? Especially when taking into consideration that I am not the thread owner and therefore have no onus?

I decline to entertain your request to acquire more knowledge. You'll just have to believe me.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

30-Jun-2018 20:44:52 - Last edited on 30-Jun-2018 20:47:31 by Team Skull

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Molly Weazly said:

Well you can at least ask them once nicely, right? =)


You could, but they're not obliged to stop if, like I've said at least twice now, no rules are being violated.

Although, this does bring up the question of whether if they do agree to stop, then come back if that is reportable under trolling...probably not since there's no limiting factor besides their own word (which I am uncertain if it's binding), but eh- this is more about the OP, not the posters themselves.

I mean, you could suggest to make that a rule, but I feel that would create an extremely dangerous precedent with which I believe very few, if any, people would support.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

03-Jul-2018 04:34:43

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Dong U Dead said:

Edit: also upgrading the button could possibly save the company, a lot of money yearly.


If Jagex wanted to save money, they'd just delete the forums entirely.

I'd also like to see the source material for such an extravagant claim.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

05-Jul-2018 06:02:15

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Small problem...

If OP can't/won't prove that it's an issue, how are we to ascertain whether or not a viable solution is to expend resources that Jagex explicitly stated they're not going to expend to fix (not really, but let's give the BotD here) an issue that is unknown whether it's even an issue worth addressing to begin with, especially an issue that has been brought up previously by a JMod in a proposal a while back...and was shot down miserably?

An answer of "Because that's how I feel" (Which was an answer given by the OP) is insufficient because, for instance, I personally FEEL some people shouldn't have the ability to post on the Forums, but as long as they're not breaking rules to warrant removal of posting permissions, my feelings are irrelevant on the matter as the rules supersede my feelings. Same logic applies here.

Also, as I posted on another thread (Since this thread has changed topic so many times, not even I know what the current topic is): What would a bump post even be considered to warrant being designated a bump post subject to moderation review and potential subsequent removal (Which wouldn't even be a removal since the thread was still bumped, and twice may I add)? It just seems like a constant goalpost shift with no real indication as to where it will finally settle, if it ever does settle. I can't support something like that.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it being worthwhile.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

21-Jul-2018 10:59:04 - Last edited on 21-Jul-2018 11:00:34 by Team Skull

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Dong U Dead said:

Good, you don't support now move on thank you!!


I'm sorry, but I don't believe I have to soaslongas I add more dissenting viewpoints :)
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

21-Jul-2018 11:26:06

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22-Jul-2018 07:19:12

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Wilf said:
Wilf said:
Team Skull said:
Do you have hard evidence of this?

Because it appears Dong doesn't, despite asserting through and through that it's happening.


Well it might not be happening now but it has happened in the past and while the rules have changed I'd say if you reported somebody for posting one word posts especially when the thread is being used daily a fmod would hide them and ask the user to stop.


I can quote the mods and name the user but I think that would probably be naming and shaming even if they've not posted for a couple of years and I've seen certain mod/mods lurking around here so rather not lol


Posted by a fmod today:

"It's also odd because this is an active thread, found on the first or second pages, so it doesn't need to be bumped.***************, I would advise you that it is not a part of being a good forumer to disrupt this thread by continuing to post "bump"."

I'd like to think that goes towards validating my opinion


But the bigger qursitopn is:

Is is actually against thje ruels?

Sutre, you can say it is in bad spirits, buit that doe not mean "agaisnt the rules"
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

24-Jul-2018 03:54:35

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screw it, nvm. "Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

24-Jul-2018 05:50:27 - Last edited on 24-Jul-2018 05:51:06 by Team Skull

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Dong U Dead said:

I can show you quite the opposite, even this thread has been word bumped on the front page, lot of threads get word bumped on the front page. I can't say more than this. The moderator had her/his reasons for saying that (what you stated Wilf.


Okay, but did they say "You can not post the word 'bump'", assuming that was what a moderator even said that can be traced back?
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

24-Jul-2018 22:08:31 - Last edited on 24-Jul-2018 22:10:50 by Team Skull

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Dong U Dead said:

Yes, remove the timer on the bump thread so they can bump there chosen threads, a week between bumps is far too long. I feel no more than a hour for each thread bump. The point of this is to remove bump words from posts, waiting a week won't change a thing.


In of which you create an even more dangerous scenario of this:

FiFi LaFeles said:
So here's a fun little scenario:

We all get to use this new Bump button available on every thread. I trot around bumping the threads I like - maybe no one else likes them, they might be very boring or niche to others.
Everyone else wanders around bumping the threads they prefer, here and there.

So you've got all these threads pinging up and down page 1 like pinballs but not actually doing much apart from changing their order of appearance on the page. No one is posting, they don't need to - they just hit the button.

How is this in any way useful, or an enhancement to the forums?


Ditto question Fifi asked.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

24-Jul-2018 22:16:24

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Dong U Dead said:

I have already answered Fifi's question if you bothered to look...


Well remind me, because due to how many times the topic has changed, I can hardly tell what the current meta discussion is.

Dong U Dead said:

For starters I didn't realize anyone can use the bump button at present, I thought it was just the owner...


Yes, and that's for a damn good reason- BECAUSE IT PREVENTS THE SCENARIO FIFI STATED COULD VERY WELL HAPPEN.

Dong U Dead said:

If the owner is going to bump old threads which are no good to the community


And how would you determine what's "no good"? What criteria do you have set to determine such a designation?

Dong U Dead said:

Hopefully the owner is responsible and s/he chooses responsible people to help look after thread/s.


There would BE no hopefully if...you know...things were kept the way they are. No chances of people being designated as "bumpers" to increase risk of abuse, no aspect of control as there is no control to be had, etc etc etc...

I only see positives in keeping it the way it is, and only negatives in changing it. Change my mind.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

25-Jul-2018 01:10:46

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Dong U Dead said:
Team Skull said:
Dong U Dead said:

I can show you quite the opposite, even this thread has been word bumped on the front page, lot of threads get word bumped on the front page. I can't say more than this. The moderator had her/his reasons for saying that (what you stated Wilf.


Okay, but did they say "You can not post the word 'bump'", assuming that was what a moderator even said that can be traced back?

I dont' understand your question.


I believe my question was pretty clear, but I'll rephrase it:

Assuming that was a moderator that even said that...

Did they explicitly say "You can not post the word 'bump'"?
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

25-Jul-2018 01:18:27

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NonMax Jake said:
Here's your issue: you base what is acceptable on what is allowed.


And if it's allowed, then that means it's acceptable to do.

So...what's the issue? Not liking how someone is posting?

So fucking what? If it's not breaking the rules, then your feelings on the matter are, quite honestly, irrelevant.

And if you believe it IS breaking the rules, then you know where to go. Complaining about it is only going to get you into trouble, as demonstrated 7 times now within this thread.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

25-Jul-2018 03:54:54 - Last edited on 25-Jul-2018 03:56:50 by Team Skull

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NonMax Jake said:
What is legal and what is ethical are two completely different things. Just because you are allowed to do something doesn't mean that it isn't destructive or wrong.


And if it's destructive/wrong, then there'd be safeguards in place to preempt it. It's already been ruled that it's not, so it's up to you to prove it is as you're asserting (albeit rather implicitly) that it is.

NonMax Jake said:

Edit: what do you mean discussing spam is going to get you into trouble? Is that a rule I haven't seen?


And if you believe it's spam, then report it to Forum Help to have a Moderator rule on it. I really don't know what you're trying to accomplish here, because complaining about the conduct of others will get you nowhere.
"Revenge...is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion."- Jeremy Taylor

25-Jul-2018 05:02:19 - Last edited on 25-Jul-2018 05:08:37 by Team Skull

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