As you can't seem to agree on the content of this page (and that of the Armadyl page), please discuss this here.
/Wikipedia:Close_paraphrasing This article might help].
The content will stay removed until this has been resolved. Mod Michelle 15-Jun-2012 09:23 BST
Ok. Fergie, it doesn't matter a fansite or official wiki. The information is never wrote yourself but by Jagex, because it is in the game. It's not my fault the information stays the same. I wrote if very different than on the fansite, and the information is just from in-game the Chosen Commander quest (In that quest you can find the same information as on the fansite) and from other things from Jagex/Runescape. I wow daily 15-Jun-2012 17:48 BSTDanziah (I wow daily)
P.S I removed the first link from wikipedia otherwise no one of us could edit this due to a spam filtre?
I'm sorry, but it's really laughable to expect anyone to believe that you wrote the Bandos article without glancing back at the original wiki's version every few words. Just looking back at the first paragraph of the section "Bandos during the Godwars":
|In the Third Age battles, also known as the God Wars, Bandos was one of the most active fighting gods.||Bandos was one of the most active fighters in the Third Age battles, also known as the God Wars.|
|When Bandos arrived during the God Wars, according to goblin religion, he attempted to recruit many of Gielinor's races to fight for him.||It would seem Bandos arrived during the wars, and according to goblin religion, he attempted to recruit many of the world's races to fight for him.|
|The dwarves, demons, elves, aviantese and humans, all refused, because they were already fighting for other gods such as Saradomin, Zamorak, Armadyl and many other gods who arrived to fight.||The dwarves, demons, elves, aviantese, and humans all refused, as they were already fighting for other gods such as Armadyl, Saradomin, Seren, Zamorak and many other gods who arrived to fight.|
|Bandos only managed to recruit a little number of followers, mainly consisting of many unintelligent and war-like races.||Eventually, Bandos managed to recruit a number of followers, mainly consisting of many different unintelligent, and war-like, races.|
Every single sentence is blatantly ripped from the original version to the point that I'm not even comfortable calling it close paraphrasing. Some of them have switched the order of the phrases, some have replaced words with synonyms, and others still are copied completely verbatim.
As for the argument that "Jagex created the game so they have the right to reproduce any content written about it" (see, I'm paraphrasing here!), that's patently false. According to United States law (which is what Wikia and the RuneScape Wiki fall under), the copyright of a derivative work is held by the contributor(s) of that derivative work insofar as they use their own material independent of the underlying, original work. As an example, you could look at the Harry Potter Lexicon lawsuit, where it was ruled that authors of literary works do not always have the right to stop derivative works from being published, nor do they own the rights to them. (In this particular case the ruling was in favor of the author of the underlying work, but only because the derivative incorporated too much of the original work.)
I can't tell if you're trying to make the argument that you're allowed to copy from the original wiki, or that it just so happened that what you wrote turned out almost exactly the same as the one published years ago on the original wiki. Either way, the argument is invalid and you are not allowed to copy it without attribution under CC-BY-SA. Since it is apparently impossible to attribute here due to external link filters, the closely paraphrased content should be removed.
To Kwc9sc: Nearly the entirety of the copied sections of the Bandos and Armadyl articles were written by a single user, Morian Smith, about four and a half years ago. He owns the copyright to the disputed content.
Cook Me Plox
Again, how is it *** possible to write a article of Bandos without having some of the same information as rs wikia? Seriously, wikia is just a fansite created in 2005. All information is from in-game so yes, it looks like rs wikia. I didn't copy it, i worked on it. So it would be sad if it was removed. Also, before placing a comment in this discussion, read this: /Wikipedia:Close_paraphrasing and stick to the facts.
I wow daily 16-Jun-2012 11:43 BST
Please can everyone avoid big edits, especially bulk deletions, of any of the wiki content until an agreement/understanding has been reached here. I understand that emotions are high at this point and so I'm asking for people to act cool whilst working out the best way to move ahead with the wiki. I would rather not see any major churn on the pages, IMO the spirit of JWP:O3ER in this instance can easily be applied across the wiki as a whole and not just single articles as all these edits are part of the same incident. Mod Ajd 18-Jun-2012 01:34 BST
Bandos is the deity of many less intelligent races of Gielinor, commonly known for defeating many large armies. The High Priest from the Land of the Goblins mentioned some intelligent peoples* have known his name; yet many humans of Gielinor has forgotten the existence of Bandos since his disappearance after the God Wars.
* ork, ogre
According to goblin religion: During the Third Age, aka the God wars, Bandos's arrived and failed to recruit many of Gielinor's races* to fight for him. They were already fighting for other gods such as Saradomin, Zamorak, Armadyl. Despite the odds, Bandos recruited some followers: unintelligent, war-like races. During the God Wars, Bandos fought many battles; his sole desire to revel in the bloodshed that threatened to destory the world. Fighting alone, he made "temporary" alliances with Armadyl and Saradomin, only to win battles. Fighting in The Wilderness, Bandos added to the chaos and confusion of Saradomin and Zamorak's forces.
Despite its end over 4,000 years ago, the combatants who were frozen during combat, continues the battle in the God Wars Dungeon. Bandos' army is one of the five combatants in the God Wars Dungeon battle, for the mighty Godsword. His army is mostly comprised of races that use melee combat. There are some orks, goblins and ogres that use Range or Magic. At the end of the war, Bandos left Gielinor. Today, Bandos has a small but ever-growing group of followers; Some say he left for new plans, others say he left because he was scared and could not make some of his followers fight.
* dwarves, demons, elves, aviantese, humans
During The Chosen Commander, Bandos attempted to conquer RuneScape by reasserting his authority over his followers. His goal was to use Goblins (the Dorgeshuun in particular) as his heralds. He hoped to punish the Dorgeshuun for abandoning his cause in the God wars, by using them for his warlike purposes. His Chosen Commander, broke free from his control. With help from fellow Dorgeshuun and the player, she launched a counterattack against the War God. She succeeded in destroying the pendant Bandos had been using to exert his will on the Goblins of Runescape. Now the pendant is destroyed, alomg with much of Bando's power within it. It is unknown whether Bandos will be able to rebuild his Strength for another assault.
When Bandos was searching for followers that would fight for him in the God Wars he found the first goblins. He discovered them in a separate world known as Yu'biusk. This was a large and marshy world, with massive mushrooms and other strange plants and structures that cover the surface. It had a very rich and fertile ground. Bandos forced the goblins to come with him to Gielinor, to train them in the ways of combat and ultimately turn them into brutal and violent warriors. Yu'biusk and all that remained were all but destroyed; the once rich and fertile land was charred black, covered in craters and poisoned sludge. By the end of Bandos' reign, it was completely uninhabitable. In the time of the God Wars the goblins were much stronger and more numerous than that they are today. The goblins unquestioningly fought for Bandos in twelve different tribes. Bandos used the goblins wastefully, sending them to unwinable battles for mere sport, leading to the extinction of many tribes. The Dorgeshuun was the only tribe to fled his rule. As time passed, goblin tribes were either wiped out or combined with other tribes for survival; many have forgotten their tribe's name. Not much has changed for the goblin, although their strength and violence has greatly diminished. Some have even settled in The Goblin Village near Taverley.
The Dorgeshuun was the only tribe to have fled the rule of Bandos. The Dorgeshuun having realised that they would be forced to extinction if they continued to follow Bandos, the Dorgeshuun hid underground in the swamps near the River Lum, cutting off all contact with outside civilizations, fearing Bandos' wrath. Bandos never found the Dorgeshuun; Over many centuries the Dorgeshuun adapted to peaceful life underground and founded the city Dorgesh-Kaan. The Dorgeshuun now oppose violence in all its forms and are amongst the most peaceful races in Gielinor. When we adventurers arrive in the scene, everything they never thought would happen becomes a nightmarish reality of their peaceful life.
Ok, this is the first time in my life I agree with someone who does make changes to my work, but I have to be fair...It looks really nice ;) There aren't by far major changes, but that doesn't matter. If you agree with your own work too (I do think so, lol) then you can edit the article, but please keep the godinfo template I made. template:godinfo. If some info is missing I will put it in my own words in the text by not copying anything. I know this copying was a huge problem because this was a huge article but normally when I only add a little information to for example item pages it is in my own words etc. and it looks really not like copying, but i will try not to type a copied article in the future when I make big edits.
I wow daily 16-Jun-2012 16:21 BST
|When Bandos was searching for followers that would fight for him in the God Wars he found the first goblins.||Bandos found the first goblins during his search for followers that would fight for him in the God Wars.|
|He discovered them in a separate world known as Yu'biusk.||He discovered them in a separate world known as Yu'biusk.|
|This was a large and marshy world, with massive mushrooms and other strange plants and structures that cover the surface. It had a very rich and fertile ground.||This massive world was large and marshy, with massive mushrooms and other strange plants and structures covering the surface; overall, it was rich and fertile.|
|Bandos only managed to recruit a little number of followers, mainly consisting of many unintelligent and war-like races.Bandos forced the goblins to come with him to Gielinor, to train them in the ways of combat and ultimately turn them into brutal and violent warriors.||Bandos forced the goblins to come with him to Gielinor, training them in the ways of combat and ultimately turning them into brutal and violent warriors.|
|Yu'biusk and all that remained were all but destroyed; the once rich and fertile land was charred black, covered in craters and poisoned sludge.||Yu'biusk and all that remained were all but destroyed; the once rich land was charred black, covered in craters and poisoned sludge.|
|By the end of Bandos' reign, it was completely uninhabitable||By the end of Bandos' reign, it was completely uninhabitable|
|In the time of the God Wars the goblins were much stronger and more numerous than that they are today. The goblins unquestioningly fought for Bandos in twelve different tribes.||The goblins, who were much stronger and more numerous than they are today, fought for Bandos in twelve different tribes:|
I do believe that any reasonable observer would see that "In this example, [the original] article text is an attempt at paraphrasing the source. However, almost all of the original word choice, word order and sentence structure is retained." There are not a "Limited number of ways to say the same thing" -- anyone writing from scratch would come up with something completely different than what you have. This is the definition of close paraphrasing, and you guys are not allowed to do it because your license isn't free. In any case, this draft is completely unacceptable. We'd prefer it if you wrote your own article using information gathered yourself, but if you really feel the need to paraphrase, check out the section "How to write acceptable content" on the Wikipedia page.
Cook Me Plox
LOOOOL, I didn't rewrote that and you guys are just sad, i know your opinion is that this wiki had never to be exist because someday it will be better than wikia and you guys will avoid this...And other pages paraphrased ? You're deleting information that is by far not the same as wikia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE SO SAD!!!!!!! What you are doing now is big vandalism..One more time and i blank out like 100 pages from wikia and let's see, that's not funny anymore and i get a ban. You're just lucky Mod Michelle didn't ban you or sth if that's even possible. This is so sad...I think i will never edit this wiki anymore because there are sad nolifers/writers from wikia who delete it all the time. SAD.
I wow daily 17-Jun-2012 08:27 BST
This is big vandalism, you're deleting information now from almost all pages with some information...Are you kidding me?/?!?!??!/1 You say this looks like that from wikia (article:Lucky Saradomin sword):
Whahahahaha, that looks like wikia i think so too xD not.
I wow daily 17-Jun-2012 08:27 BST
@cook me plox I treat you with some form of maturity but as you already said, this is getting anoyed, i get very angry when someone deletes information from like 30 pages without checking the unofficial wiki. The only thing you want is ruining this wiki. And im not silent about the other pages, look at the page of catalytic runes. You delete a full table. A table can't be copied from rs wiki in my eyes. It's just true information that i put in a table. And please keep your excuses for youself about that page of Saradomin sword because you only say you made an error because i was the one who's right and your not.
I wow daily 17-Jun-2012 11:49 BST
|Royal bolts are ammo for the Royal crossbow. Royal bolts can be obtained from grotworms and mature grotworms in the Queen Black Dragon's lair. They can also be obtained from the Queen Black Dragon herself.||Royal bolts are ammo for the Royal crossbow, obtainable from grotworms and mature grotworms in the Grotworm Lair, as well as from the Queen Black Dragon herself.|
|Unlike most other bolts, they cannot be poisoned.||They cannot be poisoned, unlike most other bolts.|
|The requirement to fire the Royal bolts with a Royal crossbow is 85 Ranged.||To fire these bolts players must have 85 Ranged, which is the requirement to wield the royal crossbow.|
|Royal bolts do have a Ranged strength of +125, the highest of all bolts and the tied third of all ammo. The only ones with a higher Ranged strength are the Hand cannon shot and Morrigan's javelin and tied with Bakriminel bolts.||They have a Ranged strength of +125, the highest of all bolts tied with Bakriminel bolts and are tied third for highest of all ammunition, only after the hand cannon shot and Morrigan's javelin.|
|Ava's devices can pick them up.||They can be picked up by Ava's devices.|
How's this? --Kwc9sc 17-Jun-2012 13:59 BST 1.Short 2.Easy to understand 3.STTF
|Royal bolts - 85|
|Royal bolts can only be used with the Royal crossbow. Can be obtained from groutworms and the QBD.|
|Ava's devices. = Yes|
If you guys want to present your content in that format I'm not going to stop you. I'm not interested in interfering with the editorial decisions made on here -- I just want to protect my site's material.
Cook Me Plox
I wow daily - You need to stop reverting all of these pages back to their illegal state. Talk it out on here instead of engaging in multiple edit wars. Fergie Angel 17-Jun-2012 16:31 BST
I dont think im understanding the point your trying to make, as articles that i have written have been deleted for the same problem. If Jagex owns rs and all images of it (my problem as pictures i have uploaded have been deleted for 'copying'), then how is it that u can say that it is copying? The material is owned by Jagex. Fansites simply use the information and images THAT JAGEX OWNS to build their own database. How can using stuff from fansites to the actual game site be considered plagirism? It doesnt make since. Domanater45 22-Jun-2012 22:55 BST
That makes sense and was all that I needed to know. I understand your point of the fanstie-respect thing, so I'll lay off the images. Thanks for the info. Domanater45 26-Jun-2012 05:49 BST
It would be very nice if this issue can be resolved some time in 2012. Fergie Angel 08-Sep-2012 23:39 BST
There's been no word on this for three months now, so I've removed the closely paraphrased articles. Avogadro 11-Oct-2012 20:37 BST
We have been requesting clarification on what action you will take against infringing content closely paraphrased from the original wiki. It's been nearly four months since this issue arose, and the lack of official response since then has been grating. I removed the text that is incompatible with this wiki's license, but it was reverted (however,most of the reverting was reverted). Please let this go, because it's not allowed. Avogadro 12-Oct-2012 03:55 BST
Okay guys, I've chased up an answer for you. I apologise that this took so long, I just wanted to make sure that all teams who are involved in this were on the same page.
I'll do my best to explain it, and how it fits in with the wiki and the moderation that has been going on. Chances are I'll cover things that are already known or expected, but I think it's best to be thorough.
Right, so firstly there is the T&Cs. I've highlighted the bits that are important below:
The first part that I have highlighted explains why images were not deleted by Jagex moderators - although any cropping or transparency was completed by fansites, the images themselves still belong to Jagex. Personally I find that having images that are the same on different sites, other than official images, like wallpapers for example, is counterproductive. However, this is not illegal for these images to be on our website/wiki. As a compromise I will write this into the images policy that images from fansites are discouraged and require permission of the person who took/edited them, but remember that these images cannot be removed from the wiki for copyright issues.
The second part highlighted is just a general reminder of the image policy in regards to non Jagex/RuneScape related images. Not really of importance in this specific case, but should be mentioned as a general point towards the image policy that I'm going to expand on.
Now, specifically addressing the content standards policy (same link):
So again, stating things we are already aware of, but it's there for you to read up on and know that it is there and Jagex do care about this issue.
Personally - and I really can't speak for the moderators who have been handling any removals - I believe the issue has been that copyright/plagiarism hasn't been reported correctly, just removed with an angry or rude comment (which is not unexpected, this is a heated issue). However, I'm sure you'll agree that removals like this can come across as vandalism rather than a legitimate concern of copyright/plagiarism.
Patrols of recent changes will continue, but if you have spotted something that we have missed I'd strongly advise following the report process below. This comes directly from the copyright team and needs to be followed in order to make a formal request for removal of content.
I hope this makes sense, and covers the questions asked, but if it doesn't feel free to question things and I'll do my best to get the answers for you. - Mod Michelle 16-Oct-2012 09:44 BST
File:While Guthix Sleeps.pngwhich was originally uploaded in 2008. Thanks for sorting out the policy page part though Cam 17-Oct-2012 13:16 BST